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Kurt's pissed!
07-16-2017, 11:32 PM
Post: #11
RE: Kurt's pissed!
(07-16-2017 02:45 AM)Shiftygism Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.While both were private moments not meant to get out, Xavier did nothing wrong. He had sex with a friend, not really comparable to Hogan being outed as a even bigger asshole than people already thought he was.

While I do think he should make a return, if Mel Gibson and Dog The Bounty Hunter can bounce back after similar racist rants, why not Hulk? His win against Gawker probably helped him in that aspect, but coming back as a centerpiece of a video game campaign that would air outside normal WWE programming isn't the right move.

And as far as a return to the WWE goes, there's still a section of the IWC that despises Hogan. Some for legit reasons, and you don't want him showing up on a show full of smarks with the chance they'll chant something that would create an even awkwarder moment.

It's a pretty tough situation. You can't just bring him back as if nothing happened, and no matter how genuine an in-ring public apology may be, there's no guarantee it'll fly or certain talent would back it. While both Hogan and WWE would benefit from a return, neither necessarily need it to happen.

Having him quietly return to the video games would be welcomed though, assuming they were able to acknowledge the guy has had drastically different appearances over the years.

Thing with Hogan is that what's said in the privacy of his own home should be his business. Illegally leaked, otherwise nobody would have ever known. WWE should have never got involved in my opinion - they let people like Bradshaw keep his job even after the whole Nazi salute/goose-step thing cost him a news job. People fuck up. Hogan apologized. WWE should have stayed out of it and everyone/all businesses should stop kowtowing to pressures from the outside (especially those that aren't even a part of it's consumer fan base)

I agree, if the others have made come-backs (like Dog), it's possible for him as well and yes, there will be haters, the IWC will throw a temper tantrum but entertainment is entertainment to me and one fuck up shouldn't = erasure. I hope to see him back in the games but even if I don't, I'm proud to be a part of communities like this that will create many many different versions of him yearly.
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07-17-2017, 08:21 AM
Post: #12
RE: Kurt's pissed!
(07-16-2017 11:32 PM)cdiebold1 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(07-16-2017 02:45 AM)Shiftygism Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.While both were private moments not meant to get out, Xavier did nothing wrong. He had sex with a friend, not really comparable to Hogan being outed as a even bigger asshole than people already thought he was.

While I do think he should make a return, if Mel Gibson and Dog The Bounty Hunter can bounce back after similar racist rants, why not Hulk? His win against Gawker probably helped him in that aspect, but coming back as a centerpiece of a video game campaign that would air outside normal WWE programming isn't the right move.

And as far as a return to the WWE goes, there's still a section of the IWC that despises Hogan. Some for legit reasons, and you don't want him showing up on a show full of smarks with the chance they'll chant something that would create an even awkwarder moment.

It's a pretty tough situation. You can't just bring him back as if nothing happened, and no matter how genuine an in-ring public apology may be, there's no guarantee it'll fly or certain talent would back it. While both Hogan and WWE would benefit from a return, neither necessarily need it to happen.

Having him quietly return to the video games would be welcomed though, assuming they were able to acknowledge the guy has had drastically different appearances over the years.

Thing with Hogan is that what's said in the privacy of his own home should be his business. Illegally leaked, otherwise nobody would have ever known. WWE should have never got involved in my opinion - they let people like Bradshaw keep his job even after the whole Nazi salute/goose-step thing cost him a news job. People fuck up. Hogan apologized. WWE should have stayed out of it and everyone/all businesses should stop kowtowing to pressures from the outside (especially those that aren't even a part of it's consumer fan base)

I agree, if the others have made come-backs (like Dog), it's possible for him as well and yes, there will be haters, the IWC will throw a temper tantrum but entertainment is entertainment to me and one fuck up shouldn't = erasure. I hope to see him back in the games but even if I don't, I'm proud to be a part of communities like this that will create many many different versions of him yearly.

The WWE was involved though because he was under their employment, and keeping him under their employment was potentially damaging for a publicly traded company. It's not really an issue of people fucking up. JBL did though, he went for cheap heat in a manner that crossed the line, but did it as a heel persona. That's an understandable mistake. Terry Bolea on the other hand, had a private conversation exposed. One that outed him as a bigot. It's all about context. His firing and removal from the Hall of Fame website was justified and something they had to do.....despite other questionable inductees remaining.

Also, an apology doesn't mean a whole lot. There's no real way to tell if the man is genuine in regretting what he said other than it leading to his termination. Chances are if you use the language he did...in the manner he did, you probably have some deep seeded issues. It's up to the company and his peers now if he should get another chance.

Hopefully he will, I'm not a fan of the man so much as I am the character, and to be honest, after hearing certain stories over the years (about Ric Flair, and Moolah), and public rants from others (Warrior), a great deal of the wrestling heroes we looked up to were probably gigantic assholes behind the curtains. It's just when the curtains are pulled back in instances like Hogan's, you have to act accordingly because the wrestling business....is a business after all.

On the bright side though, him being exposed gave us amusing shit like this...

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dely316 (07-19-2017)
07-17-2017, 10:08 AM
Post: #13
Kurt's pissed!
I got to disagree with anyone that is even remotely defending Hogan. No one - privacy of own home or not should be spouting racist bollocks, this goes for people of all race, we as the world should be past this.

Part of being a role model is that you are careful, it more so than ever, goes with the territory, I also think wrestlers should really be more careful (as should everyone to be fair) when creating sex tapes and the like, unless you actually want them leaked... now its difficult in a non PG era to say should sex tapes lead to suspension but I am sure the WWE didn't want someone with a clearly PG gimmick in leaked videos having sex with another superstar...

the problem for all of it for me, is that when it suits the WWE itself endulges in poor taste gimmicks for ratings, so I don't blame WWE for distancing itself from Hogan, although deleting his whole existence is OOT, I do believe removing him from all products for a period of time is correct.

The court case and Hogan winning has further muddied the water for me, as that shows no remorse for what happened and I do question his morale foundation.

We could argue back and forth on privacy etc.. but seriously... its much easier just not to be racist, in public and at home.
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07-17-2017, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 08:51 PM by cdiebold1.)
Post: #14
Kurt's pissed!
Never said it was justified nor am I defending him. Read what I said, Stocksy. Racism isn't acceptable but thought crimes are becoming things. We're currently in a culture where world organizations are trying to make things like "Taco Night" illegal (cultural appropriation). You should be able to say whatever you want, no matter how unbelievably retarded it is (as long as it's not a threat) in the privacy of your own home.

I think it's hypocritical for anyone (not you in this instance, but I've seen it) defend leaked sex tapes but not defend freedom of speech (again, no matter how fucking stupid it is). Role models are role models right? Nobody can deny that WWE is very inconsistent with what they want to distance themselves from and for what reasons.

Hogan winning has nothing do with his own remorse - his privacy was invaded illegally and a news publication made money off of that invasion of privacy. That doesn't really say anything about his levels of regret or remorse, just that what happened was illegal and a judge thought so too.

And yeah, much easier to just not be a racist - but again, a person's own prejudices and biases are their business and I could totally see a point if Hogan was calling people the n word in public or on TV etc.

Now as far as erasing him, that's what I'm saying. You got Hogan who said some racist shit in his home being erased but then you have people like Pat Patterson running around sexually assaulting people, Stone Cold being a wife beater, John Cena being a serial cheater, sex tapes, and on and on and on. While I'm not saying one is better than the other the fact that WWE is so inconsistent about what they consider "too far" and what they want to distance themselves from is mind-boggling to me.

Lastly, and again, I'm not defending the specific things he said as I do not agree with them.
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stocksy (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 11:54 AM
Post: #15
Kurt's pissed!
Agreed mate, the inconsistency is key.

I do feel Hogan winning (and the way he has dealt with it) is everything to do with remorse.
He has played the victim and in my eyes he isn't, he has constantly behaved badly in his personal life and made bad decisions and not done basic things to protect his own brand and yet then plays the victim, act like a snake and surround yourself by snakes and in the end all you are is a snake.

I have no sympathy for him at all.

I have sympathy for his fans, those that made his brand and that supported him through thick and thin, he definitely has not respected them.

I agree what you do in your own home/sex life/anything else if its within the boundaries of the law of the country you are in at the time is your own business... but if you get caught out you have to own it, be a grown up and justify it if you are proud of it.

For me time and time again grown people get caught doing shit and don't own it, blame others, give shitty excuses.

That's not the same as people are free do what they want behind closed doors.

I can do stuff right now I don't want people to know about, so I can take precautions to make sure no one knows...

if I allow myself to be in a situation that puts something in jeopardy I cant blame others...

To me its just being an adult. If you film yourself having sex and its leaked... that's on me... not for being filmed but for who I give it to, or who I did it with, you assume some risk... own it...

if I have strong views that are immoral and controversial and it leaks... own it or admit you are wrong....

I just think society is so f**ked up that people think they can act and say what they like and never be held accountable and in fact can legally challenge those that question/leak those views.

Freedom of speech and actions only works if you own that freedom.

Don't say one thing publically and portray one thing and behind closed doors another... that's wrong...

I think that's where sex tapes are different...

two consensual adults having sex is natural and fine, this day and age filming it is fine for "personal use"

Being a racist isn't.....

id agree on wife beating, etc....

just don't do this shit... no matter who you are.

My main problem is that people always play the victim...

Hogan is always the victim and has been all his life... he has been and constantly is one of lifes winners... he has lived a blessed life... yet his actions have constantly made him a loser.

Wrestling is a ego driven business and unfortunately so many of my heroes in wrestling are actually jerks with little respect for anyone else but themselves, its a real tragedy that so many of them have destroyed their own families, played the victims and then ultimately led to their own self destruction and in most cases death.

I assume excessive drug use/constant bangs to the head doesn't help.

I suspect like concussions in NFL, the madness of many of our idols lies between head abuse and drug abuse.

I believe Hogan on many levels is crazy and not of a fit mind.

Maybe I am being harsh on him but I don't believe freedom of speech allows for hate speech, I think this is a new idea, I don't think people that lost their lives to allow us the freedom of speech meant for it to be used to be insulting, hold others down and breed hate...

I think freedom of speech is about questioning those that oppress us, those that we see dividing our societies, its about breaking down artificial barriers that prevent a free and happy society.

Racist and Bigots hide behind freedom of speech whilst no really understanding what it means.

(obviously you are neither and hopefully no one else here is too!!)
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07-18-2017, 05:37 PM
Post: #16
Kurt's pissed!
I get what you're saying better now than I did before and I agree with you.
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stocksy (07-18-2017)
07-18-2017, 11:30 PM
Post: #17
RE: Kurt's pissed!
(07-18-2017 05:37 PM)cdiebold1 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I get what you're saying better now than I did before and I agree with you.

Apologies for my rant lol
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cdiebold1 (07-19-2017)
07-19-2017, 02:12 AM
Post: #18
Kurt's pissed!
All good, brother!
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stocksy (07-19-2017)
07-19-2017, 09:10 AM (This post was last modified: 07-19-2017 09:11 AM by EvilMeanie.)
Post: #19
RE: Kurt's pissed!
(07-18-2017 11:54 AM)stocksy Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I believe Hogan on many levels is crazy and not of a fit mind.

I firmly believe that Hogan is stoned out of his mind most of the time. I've heard various remarks over the years regarding his fondness for the herb, and it really and truly shows with some of the utter nonsense that tends to come out of his mouth.

As far as being mad at Hogan goes and all of that good stuff, that's not a debate that I'm about to jump in at this rate. I'm a Randy Savage fan. I've known Hogan was scum for decades now.
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stocksy (07-19-2017)
07-20-2017, 12:30 AM
Post: #20
RE: Kurt's pissed!
(07-11-2017 09:31 PM)EvilMeanie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Much as I'm "meh" on Rollins, I find it hard to blame him for Sting. He wanted to do that spot, and, if I'm Seth, I'd have a really hard time saying "no" to the guy I idolized who eagerly wants to prove he can hang with me.

Going for the second buckle bomb after what happened with the first was absurd. I blame both for that particular call.

I was more annoyed they had no plans to put the belt on Sting.

[Image: HulkHoganSig.jpg]
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cdiebold1 (07-20-2017)
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